Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Member's Area Member's Forum
Discussion of all things modelling.

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Green team » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:46 am

Sacre bleu!!!!!
Green team
Devotee
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 6:23 pm
Location: Perth WA

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Dick » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:35 pm

Just curious - out of the smaller airframe types MD: Explorer, 520/530, B407, B429, H 120/130//135/145 which would be the quietest in terms of noise levels if you wanted to insert/extract SOF operators within say a 1km radius of bad guys?

I have seen a H120 fly past me about 500m away from me and below me in a national park and it was almost whisper quiet (I only saw it after it past me), I would presume they might be noisier in the hover, the AIRBUS Fenestron and MD NOTAR provide lower noise levels than conventional tail rotors and added safety levels for tail rotor strikes but that does not stop the 160th SOAR from utilising their MH-6 ??? So how important are noise levels for this requirement???
Lest We Forget
Dick
Devotee
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Sydhuey » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:48 pm

The latest fenestrons are fairly quiet but the older ones sound like a tie fighter off star wars and are very noisy , the big disadvantage of a fenestron is it takes more power than a conventional tail rotor and are more complicated, also the entire structure for the fenestron usually give the chopper a bad aft c of g limit, not the go when you want max power avail and max T/R authority, ie not good hot /high, a lot of the noise is thru operating technique, but a helo insertion is not the most covert, if one was getting done in an urban setting I am sure you would have things like EF-18G's etc making lots of noise overhead and I am sure you would have a news chopper in the way somewhere.
User avatar
Sydhuey
Beginner
 
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:00 pm

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby 172 Squadron » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:49 am

Sydhuey wrote: I am sure you would have a news chopper in the way somewhere.


Yep CNN where the military gets all it's up to date intel from!
Kind regards, Jason.

I try to build Australian aircraft subjects in 1/72 scale.

I’m still very mediocre but having a ball!
172 Squadron
Beginner
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:25 pm

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby David E » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:49 pm

Contenders exhibiting at Land Forces 2018 for the Land 2097 Phase 4 project were Airbus with the H145M, Bell with the 407GT and Boeing with the AH-6i. AW169M, MD530G and Northrops version of the 407 are likely to play also. Bell 429 is an outlier but a possibility.
I'm not older than dirt, but I do remember when it was new.
User avatar
David E
Devotee
 
Posts: 2908
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:45 am

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Calum » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:59 am

David E wrote:Contenders exhibiting at Land Forces 2018 for the Land 2097 Phase 4 project were Airbus with the H145M, Bell with the 407GT and Boeing with the AH-6i. AW169M, MD530G and Northrops version of the 407 are likely to play also. Bell 429 is an outlier but a possibility.


Quite a range of machines and capability /cost there. Northrops 407 is unmanned (MQ08C firescout) . Don't you mean Northstar? They have a large number of kits for weapons etc for the 407.

As for the 429, it's become quite popular in the USA for para-public (police) roles. I've heard it will be coming into service with a large government law enforcement organisation with a similar role to SOCOM .

It will be interesting to see the actual requirements that fall out of the RFI
Calum
Devotee
 
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:18 am

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby David E » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:18 pm

Calum wrote: Don't you mean Northstar? They have a large number of kits for weapons etc for the 407.


Damn autocorrect.

Calum wrote:As for the 429, it's become quite popular in the USA for para-public (police) roles. I've heard it will be coming into service with a large government law enforcement organisation with a similar role to SOCOM .


21 of them in service with the Turkish National Police.
I'm not older than dirt, but I do remember when it was new.
User avatar
David E
Devotee
 
Posts: 2908
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:45 am

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Damian C » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:59 pm

Dick wrote:For modeller's sake whichever type is selected I hope we do not adopt the overall super dark monotone colour the 160th SOAR have on all their machines (granted this is probably best suited for night ops) - I rather love our Aussie Army triple colour camouflage we have on our Blackhawks and Taipans and other hardware...


I will guarantee you this: mods for local service will require scratchbuildingc, aftermarket or stealing parts from other kits.
User avatar
Damian C
Devotee
 
Posts: 842
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Dick » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:25 pm

The Official Press release today from Defence - Kiowa's in Army service final flight and 50 years of Army Aviation (for the record the Blackhawks did not fly underneath the coat hanger in Sydney today):

Army Aviation Corps celebrates 50 years of flying
18 October 2018
The Australian Army Aviation Corps today marked 50 years since formation, celebrating with a ceremonial parade, flypast and a variety of displays at the Army Aviation Training Centre, in Oakey, Queensland.

In addition to the flypast in Oakey, simultaneous flypasts were held in Sydney, Townsville and Darwin.

Head of the Australian Army Aviation Corps, Brigadier Scott Benbow, said he was proud to join past and present personnel to mark this important milestone.

“Then and now, the Corps is committed to helping the Australian soldier fight, survive and win, and be ready to serve wherever needed,” Brigadier Benbow said.

“From a small Corps formed in 1968 flying light fixed-wing aircraft, the Australian Army Aviation Corps has grown to be an advanced, state-of-the-art force.

“Today, the Australian Army Aviation Corps flies a variety of capabilities, including the Tiger armed reconnaissance, Chinook medium lift and Taipan multi role helicopters.”

The commemorations also saw the final flight and retirement of the Army’s Bell 206B-1 Kiowa fleet after almost 47 years of service.

“Kiowa has been Army’s primary training helicopter since 1990, and every pilot, groundcrew member and maintainer who has served since that time has one thing in common – the Kiowa,” Brigadier Benbow said.

“The Kiowa fleet has provided stalwart service to the Army since 1971, whether on deployment, in disaster relief operations or as a training helicopter.

“All personnel, past and present, who have operated, maintained and supported the Kiowa can be proud of the part they have played in Army’s history.”


Lest We Forget
Dick
Devotee
 
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Has Army retired all Kiowas?

Postby Calum » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:25 pm

David E wrote:
Calum wrote: Don't you mean Northstar? They have a large number of kits for weapons etc for the 407.


Damn autocorrect.

Calum wrote:
As for the 429, it's become quite popular in the USA for para-public (police) roles. I've heard it will be coming into service with a large government law enforcement organisation with a similar role to SOCOM .


21 of them in service with the Turkish National Police.


Plus 4 with the Turkish Fire Service of a similar configuration.But I was meaning a large US organisation in this instance.

The Canadian Coast guard are also a large user.. IIRC Bell are nearing ship 400 so it's been quite a successful aircraft for them.

NSW Police are looking to replace their AS350's and EC 135. I think there is an RFT out a the moment Noting they (POLAIR) have 2 Bell 412's already, and the 429 has a similar cockpit configuration to the 412 I can see it being in the mix there, Or they may just get more 412's.

There is another police force looking at 429's as well at the moment
Calum
Devotee
 
Posts: 1932
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:18 am

Previous